Tuesday, February 22, 2022

OD&D Comparing the Gygax and Greyhawk Thief to Other Clones

 So I have continued work on my analysis. Today I made a chart where I compared the HD progression of the Thief from Gary Gygax's pre-greyhawk thief, and the Fighting Capability listed in Greyhawk, with the HD and FC of the Cleric from the first booklet Men & Magic, with all of the clones I compared last time.

Most clones seemed to use the charts given in Gary's pre-greyhawk HD with the FC from Greyhawk. Only Seven Voyages of Zylarthen and Torch & Sword use the Cleric HD. None of the clones that used FC used the Cleric FC, but many that didn't use FC used the Cleric as their base for combat progression, which is what the text in both Gary's pre-greyhawk thief document, and greyhawk say a thief should progress as. I still find it quite the contradiction that they progress as a cleric in 1 system, Alternative Combat, but not in the other system. My guess is that since Gary never really intended to use chainmail combat, that he really just ignored it, or I don't see why he would make such a contradiction otherwise. There are a couple of systems that stray somewhat in their own ways. 

This didn't really reveal much new to me, but it was an interesting process. I wonder how many of the clones have considered what Gary said in the text, if they wrestled with it verses what he put in the charts. 

First I'm just going to add some empty space so that the images on the side do not cover the chart up.






Here is the chart:





LevelGary's LBB HDGreyhawk FCLBB ClericDelving DeeperWB FMAGS&W WBSpellcraft & Swordplay7VoZGreyharp v1Greyharp v2Torch & SwordSword & Spell 2e1pPlatemailSupplement: Planet Eris
HDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFCHDFC
11M1M1M1NA AC as Cleric1NA AC as Cleric111NA AC Between MU & Fighter. No ClericNA GreyhawkMNA GreyhawkM1NA AC as Cleric1NA AC as Cleric11M1-1NA AC as Cleric
21+1M+12M+11+1M+11+11+121+12M+1M+221+121M2-2
322M32M22M222+22+132M2M3232M3-3
42+12M+143M2+22M2+12+132+242M+12M+242+142M4-4
533M4+13M+13+13M/H-13343+24+13M3M4+1353M5-5
63+13M+15H-144M/H3+13+14+43+353M+13M+253+163M6-6
74H-16H4+14M/H4454+36H-1H-26474M7-7
84+1H7H+155M/H4+14+164+47HH74+184M8-8
95H+17+1S-15+25M/H556+65+47+1H+1H+27+1595M9-9
105+1S-17+2S-16+16M/H5+15+175+57+2S-1S-17+25+1105M10-10
116S-17S-17+3S-1S-17+36116M11-11
126+1S-17+1S-18+1S-1S-18+16+1126M12-12
13S8+2SS8+27137M13-13
14S8+3SS8+37+1147M14-14
9+18
9+28+1
9
9+1
10
10+1